Drama
I have kicked Chalerm out and live alone in The Mansion.
It started on Friday when Chalerm came back from the temple ceremonies for the murder victim, the woman in his village. He was tired and I didn’t say anything when he skipped work Saturday. He didn’t look well and said he was “sick little bit”.
Sunday Chalerm said he didn’t want go to go to work. Chalerm had enough money, he said, and didn’t need to work. He would rather stay home. But I asked him to go and he did so.
Monday Chalerm skipped work again. I asked him to go but he refused. I pondered what to do. I wondered if the murder saga had upset him and decided to take it soft.
Tuesday Chalerm spent the day at home again. I was getting annoyed. Wednesday was the same. Chalerm was in a good mood and didn’t seem to realise I was counting the minutes. We had a confrontation at night.
Chalerm didn’t offer any good reasons to quit his job. He had some minor gripes about what people had said and done in the office but I said he had to expect that, or worse, in any job. I reminded him how good this job was, paying 8-9000 B per month for a light workload. Chalerm got this job as a part time position while Farang D and I still were on speaking terms, with the understanding that Chalerm was welcome to work full time when he didn’t have school.
Chalerm spends most of the office day sleeping or using the Internet. The other people in the office are either women or gay boys. Sometimes there is a phone call and Chalerm must speak English, organise something or take notes, but then it is quiet again. His boss is generous and forgiving. Chalerm can come and go as he wants. In what other job can he call in the afternoon and say it got late at DJ Station, I am not coming in today?
Chalerm doesn’t have any classes now. In this phase of his education he is supposed to get work experience from the tourist industry. If he doesn’t do that, what will he do? Nothing, said Chalerm, he just didn’t feel like having a job now. It was boring.
I said this wasn’t how things work in real life. When you have a good job you keep it. It might be boring sometimes but you don’t quit until you found a better job. I said the money I gave him was so he could get an education. It wasn’t a lifelong stipend. I would take care of him but I expected him to do his part. If he made money he may not need as much money from me as earlier.
Chalerm is 24. He used to be a barefoot village boy and he should do something to secure his future. This job is not only comfy and easy and well paid by Thai standards, it is also relevant work experience for him. Would he rather work 12 hour shifts in the chicken factory in Anyburi for 4,000 B a month?
Chalerm had mentioned earlier how working was unnecessary since he had a rich foreign husband. I didn’t pay attention to it but now he wanted to live accordingly. I asked how long he planned to be idle? Chalerm didn’t say but I had the impression it was at least the rest of the year.
Chalerm asked if this was about the money? I said the money wasn’t the main thing.
I could have waited a week or two but I could see how this would end. I could not accept the situation and if I waited the confrontation would only get louder. So I said he could do whatever he wanted, but if this was his choice he could go and do nothing somewhere else.
Chalerm changed colours as we spoke. When I said his weekly allowance wasn’t meant to last forever he turned red. When I said he could leave he turned white. He looked like he was about to cry for a moment but then his stubborn defiance kicked in and he said ok, he would move out. I asked when and how? Chalerm said I would get to see that.
I went to bed but heard Chalerm shuffle around in the house. Then silence. He had left without saying goodbye.
This was last night. I haven’t heard from him since.
This is the fourth time I have kicked Chalerm out. It is several years since last shakedown. The reason is always unacceptable behaviour. In the previous episodes it has taken around three weeks before he comes back, offended and self-righteous and without a word of apology. Then we carry on like nothing happened.
Chalerm took his notebook computer and clothes. I am in charge of Nemo and two turtles.
Tags: gay Thailand, Thai boy
May 16th, 2008 at 10:31 am
Now is when the daddy in you takes over and teaches him yet again. He is probably a victim of his peers he saw over the weekend. Just think of the cause, and relax.
May 16th, 2008 at 11:04 am
I love to come here daily and read of your life in LOS. I am very sorry you and Chalerm are going through this now. I hope it works out OK for the both of you.
May 16th, 2008 at 11:47 am
I hope things sort themselves out with a tincture of time. You both need and love each other.
May 16th, 2008 at 12:04 pm
usually i dont comment such personal things, but i definitly think you reacted right. of course it must hurt to let him go in one way, but you gave him the best chance to think about it for himself. dont mess your head. greetz
May 16th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
WOW sorry to hear this ! But I think you did the right thing…. people that come from nothing and introduce to a life of more than that have a hard time reacting and either blow it all or just don’t know what to do.. .. my ex thai bf was like him just older but wasn’t used to nice places and all and I was.. till i backed off and went to cheaper places against my morale then he appreciated me more.. maybe he is happy being poor and not adjusted to having a life of wealth?
May 16th, 2008 at 12:58 pm
you put your foot down for his own good….i guess it must not be easy being parent and bf..i have bf that wont work either but helps me in my business and there are days id like to do what you did…id bet things work out when he finds out how the world is when he is w/o support…good luck!
May 16th, 2008 at 1:07 pm
Thanks for talking about your recent unpleasantness, and for giving lots of helpful context. My only observation is a small one.
From reading your blog nearly 2 years, my sense is that the quantity & quality of communication (probably due to cultural differences, and maybe cross-purposes between the two of you) is uneven. The aloof routine - BF comes home, BF says next to nothing, BF goes into another room - seems to happen a lot. This may just be his way, but just the same, it is natural that you should become annoyed and confrontational if he won’t or can’t learn to open up to you more fully.
I hope all will go well and be resolved positively, soon. All the best, Trev.
May 16th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
Sorry to hear about this SF. Hope he will come to his senses and you will be happy together.
Hugs
May 16th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
It must have been unpleasant but you did exactly the right thing.
May 16th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
He will come back again due to lack of other options but then you need to make the big decision.
May 16th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
This is so sad….but understandable. I have had a Thai boyfriend for 8 years and we have come to breaking points, but it was always settled within an hour. I don’t think he is as bull headed as Chalerm. I have been very willing to forgive if he is willing to work through the problem with me. Good luck. I truly hope you can work it out.
May 16th, 2008 at 6:01 pm
My bf is somewhat similar. Fortunately or unfortunately I’m not in Thailand for extended periods and so he has had to fend for himself - complete his university course, find a decent job, etc.
Farang friends tell me they wish they had done it that way. Living with a young bf full-time who does not work or study is asking for trouble. I thought you had done it the right way as far as the work / study is concerned - sorry it’s not turning out as you had hoped.
We’ve had similar confrontations to you and come close to breaking up. The confrontations are always due to ‘taking for granted’ issues. Things got better when he got a well paying job in a big, straight office that kept him very busy.
If I were you I’d go on an extended holiday to Malaysia, for a month at least. If he can come back on his terms instead of yours then nothing will change. If you’re not there, he can’t come back and you can’t go soft. Maybe give up the Mansion.
Make him stand on his own feet for a bit and decide if he’s willing to move out his 12 year old girl phase.
As good as his job sounds, my bf began to grow up when he was studying and then working with straight Thais, not girly boys and faghags, and had less time for partying. But one of the worst periods was when he had a very boring job in a travel agency that had few customers.
May 16th, 2008 at 6:19 pm
You did the right thing, all this time he should know better,enough is enough.
May 16th, 2008 at 8:45 pm
I have to concur with most of the preceding posts. I am sad to hear of your break-up, but cannot fault your position. Chalerm will not be well served long term by any other stance on your part. Perhaps the solution lies in the path between. Most folks have to simply grab whatever job comes along, and soldier on in that position, making what they can of it. Luckier folks have more time to pick something that suits them well. something they love. What would Chalerm love? What would he do as a chosen vocation, such that money was a secondary consideration? If you can help him find that, you will both be very happy. (N.B, even if he appears to be “Thai” and have no working interests, there wil be something, as he IS human…we all have aptitudes and the need to be valued…)
May 16th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
Chalerm’s dream job would involve dressing up and having lots of people admire him. If he can’t become a star at least he can become a tour guide and have a captive audience on the sightseeing bus.
May 16th, 2008 at 11:10 pm
I hope you’re ok. It sounds like you’ve determined the minimal acceptable situation for you is not being met. You’re going through the pain of taking care of yourself. Know that you’re loved by people you’ve never met.
May 16th, 2008 at 11:28 pm
“Chalerm’s dream job would involve dressing up and having lots of people admire him. If he can’t become a star at least he can become a tour guide and have a captive audience on the sightseeing bus. ”
Well, Chalerm must be very good-looking, then!
This narcissism thing has happened to me a couple of times. No sooner do I congratulate myself on having a really cute boyfriend than I discover that he agrees with me completely, and is involved in a love affair with the mirror….Not just Thailand, the most spectacular case was from Morocco, although one boy from Chiang Rai did confess, “I love me, too.”
Good luck, whatever comes! And pray for a Divine Beauty who simply does not care about all that!
Jaafar
May 17th, 2008 at 12:05 am
Are all u guys in denial??what do you expect from a much younger bf…love?come on..would u guys have fallen in love with a guy twice yr age when you were young…i dont think so…be sensible and if things go wrong like with Chalerm just get on with your life, turn the page and find a new way to dream.these kinda guys are only using you
May 17th, 2008 at 12:06 am
Cross cultural and cross economic class relationships are tough to mantain. There is always the money issue. Let alone the age and language issues.
As the saying goes, it takes two to tango. It seems that a lot of younger guys, just want to dance in front of their own mirrors. Only when that image in front of them look older and less desirable that they wake up. By then, it is too late.
May 17th, 2008 at 4:48 am
All the best to you during this tough time, SF. I’ve been there too and know how hard it is. I don’t presume to give advice, just to consult your heart rather than your wounded ego. D
May 17th, 2008 at 5:58 am
It sounds like dejavu for me. I went through exactly the same crisis over and over again with ex thai bf and in the end things didn’t really work out well. It hurt in the beginning but can say that I’m a lot happier now.
May 17th, 2008 at 10:24 am
I hate to take a contrary view, but SF seemed demanding and insensitive. The theme of the blog always seems to be his way or the highway. I am sure Charlem is in pain and perhaps SF also. Life goes on.
May 17th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
Attempting to influence a Thai effeminate gay boy to behave like an adult is an uphill battle.
Unfortunately there are few if any positive role models for effeminate gay boys in Thailand. Every soap opera has its ditzy queen who seemingly competes to take gay stereotypes to a new low. They are portrayed as mindless and obsessed with the trivial, extending little beyond their appearance. They rarely have a traditional job or contribute in any useful way to society. They rarely have a stable relationship with another human being.
Furthermore, these individuals are rarely found in positions of responsibility in wider Thai society.
So the soap opera image seems to be what many femme gay boys aspire to and mimic. Few of their number tell them that they should aim for more.
While they may be relatively “open” in Thailand, it is only really as an “acceptable oddity”. In reality Thailand is decades behind many countries in the western world in acceptance and integration of gays into mainstream society.
They play the role that society has deemed acceptable for them. A farang is unlikely to change that.
May 17th, 2008 at 6:13 pm
I come back from a visit to Thailand myself to hear this. I’m sorry for you both and hope it works out in a way that satisfies you both. From the little I’ve seen of the farang/thai relationship dynamic you have done well to keep it going so long so obviously it’s worth sorting out, if you can sort it out.
May 17th, 2008 at 8:42 pm
I’ve been visiting this blog for a while now and I enjoy the posts about chalerm very much. However, I can’t help but feel that chalerm has been taking advantage of you for a long time. From your posts, it doesn’t seem like he has any feelings for you. He seems to see you as his ticket to the easy life. At least that is what I get from your postings on this blog. Maybe its time to let go of chalerm. I know you feel attached to him. But don’t let him use you. There are others out there who’ll give you the attention you deserve. It’s time to find a new queen.
May 17th, 2008 at 11:29 pm
Any encouragement given to either one of you would possibly hurt the other. So to both of you: behave like adults and try to find a way out of this situation. And from reading this exceptional blog, i think both of you are very demanding. Chalerm in terms of maintenance and SF in terms of attentiveness. Neither of that is good or bad. Try to find back to the roots of your relationship. Maybe to continue the novel would help?!
May 18th, 2008 at 9:45 am
SF I am somewhat relieved that you have confronted Chalerm (again), I know the feeling but believe me when I disengaged from my ‘Chalerm’ I was happier and richer. I don’t know what he did with his allowance to get an education, but he is still as thick as ever. BUT not living with me any more.
Good luck
May 18th, 2008 at 1:02 pm
SF I have not emailed you for a while. Every relationship is different regardless of the players and where they are from. While I do not live full time in Thailand I could not imagine having a BF from anywhere else. No matter the circumstances relationships are always a struggle. In most relationships money is always an issue. Why should it be any different with Thai boys, especially when they have very little money or hope. Both of you are very fortunate and I hope this is just a lovers spat!
May 18th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
I don’t think SF is “demanding” at all, at least not based on his side of the story, which of course is all we know.
What he would like is an adult relationship with a young man who would prefer to behave like a 12 year old girl.
Maybe that is never going to change, but expecting a adult relationship from somone who is at least age-wise an adult is not an unreasonable expectation. But Chalerm may never be able to provide that.
May 18th, 2008 at 4:18 pm
Hi I hope not to sound like a prick but I really think that you are to be blame for the shortcomings in the relationship. Being the older and the one with the money and intelligence, you should have learnt to nuture the relationship in the correct manner from the beginning.Dealing with young Thai boys are not as complicated as everyone seems to say plus for all you guys out there who seem to condemn young Thai guys and have a lot to say about them…..pleeze take a look at yourselves and why the f….! are you guys still either here or are into them? Just like youths anywhere else they need proper guidance which involves rules being set from day one. Yes, most thais come from deprived backgrounds and less exposure let alone proper education, but given the right guidance, they can grow and excel.
I am a 46 year old Asian expat in Bangkok with a Northern Thai bf of 8 years, he is currently 26. I met him in a bar, fell in love with him instantly and asked him to come stay with me after just a night. From day one, I made rules like him having to cut off all connections with his friends from the bar, the way he uses his free time, guided him into ways to upgrade his skills and education, etc. At that time, I had only spent a bout a year in Bangkok and was working in a lowly paid job in Bangkok and he could not speak a word of English. We had gone through the worst times together including renting a Thai style room fro 2,000 baht a month and eating a pack of sticky rice to survive when I was jobless to today, when I have assets worth more than 8 million US$ under his name, and we live extremely comfortably. He runs two of my 6 companies and is currently featured in numerous Thai magazines and publications. What I am trying to say is that it is possible to nuture a right relationship with a Thai boy.
In the case of Chalerm, you guys have gone through numerous good times together I am sure , so try to salvage the relationship and nuture it the right way. You will have to start a fresh with him and lay down certain rules,etc and also motivate him through mixing with the right people,etc. Old ties have to be cut and always insists on vetting all his freinds, etc. A realtionship with a young Thai also involves a degree of responsible parenting…lol! But it pays in the end.
Good Luck.
May 18th, 2008 at 8:19 pm
Jay, since you started with your Thai friend when he was 18, you had a subordinate teenage boy at that time, not an adult bf. You may well have an adult bf now. The sort of “rules” you describe are reminiscent of a certain notorious gay Thai forum moderator.
You may well be right - that may be the only way to make a “relationship” with such a young boy work. But many of us would have a hard time looking at ourselves in the mirror if we did. I don’t think I could respect myself treating a sexual partner like that. If that’s the only type of “relationship” that works, then I don’t want it.
Furthermore, I think you were probably lucky that your bf put up with your rules. Many farang have tried to impose such rules on their bfs - they’re now single.
May 18th, 2008 at 10:30 pm
Hi James, if you noted the blog site, the realtionship with Chalerm was also started when he was about 17 I think plus most of the guys here who posted their comments are also into young thai gay guys.(18 above I hope!).
The western way of thinking and the Asian ways are different James that is why very few relationships between Older Western guys and younger western guys ever survive unless if only money is involved. Unlike with Asian guys, such realationships can survive if nutured correctly.
By the way when I said that rules have to be applied, I meant fair rules that had justifications and well meanings and not some kind of sick, slave-like stuff. Furthermore James, as you mentioned, if you were only seeking for a sexual partner, then I do not think those relationships are going to last long. Meaningful lover type relationships do exists in the gay world James, you need not look for just sexual partners, it would burn you out mentally and emotionally after a while. Wish you luck mate.
May 18th, 2008 at 10:53 pm
Chalerm was 18 years and four months old when I met him. But his incorrectly recorded birth date was five months later, making him still appear 17 on his ID card.